Please post at least three sentences here once you have completed the reading. At least one of your sentences must focus on Magna Carta, but you can also ask questions about/find resources about China if that seems interesting to you.
Remember to use the format for posting a link that we went over in class (it's on the assignments page).
20 comments:
I was wondering who would stop the king. If he were to control the military, then who would stop him from disobeying the Magna Carta? would the barons have enough power to really control him? also, would they actually punish the king? In china the YMCA seemed a little, well not so Christian. Since Christianity in not big in China, do they just not take the Christian part seriously?
I found it interesting how the Magna Carta influenced many laws that are used today. It is interesting how it still appeals after such a long period of time. I also found it interesting how the kind signed the Magna Carta even though it would reduce his power.
Did the king sign the Magna Carta out of fear?
What did it mean by a Chinese Runnymede?
I found this article very interesting. I also was wondering who could/ would stop the king. One question that I have is even though the serfs did not really care about the Magna Carta what affects did it have on them, and why didn't they care?
I found this translation of the Magna Carta and found it interesting...
http://www.constitution.org/eng/magnacar.htm
First off, I found a map. Hopefully its from the right time period but its pretty good.
map
I was interested in finding out more about The City of Chang'an
I found out that it was the great cosmopolitan capital of about ten dynasties in China.
As it said in the reading, it means "perpetual peace". during the Xin dynasty it was called "constant peace"
Since then, the Yangshao Culture
has taken over. They are named after the Yellow River and they mad lots of pottery. They made these things called
Dings and if you click on the link you can see a picture of these dings.
ok so this link didnt work of the dings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:CMOC_Treasures_of_Ancient_China_exhibit_-_pottery_ding.jpg
Before I get into my own, I can answer your questions, Eric:
Yes, it was at least partially out of fear. Like the reading said, he was broke and needed the help of the nobles to keep his power, so he signed the Magna Carta to get them to help him out.
As for a Chinese Runnymede, it meant a similar event; i.e., the Chinese making a document that limited the powers of a dictator or a king.
I looked a bit into Runnymede, and found that there are actually four memorials located in the woods next to the water meadow: an Air Forces Memorial for the airforce people who died in WWII; a John F. Kennedy memorial; a Magna Carta memorial (naturally); and Cooper's Hill House, which isn't so much a memorial as a spot that has been used for important meetings and such several times throughout history.
Take a look at this Wikipedia article about it.
I also found a map of Runnymede with the memorials shown
Here's another map that shows where Runnymede is in Britain.
Lastly, here's a picture of the Magna Carta Memorial.
I was wondering what barons were. In the reading it says that "On June 15, 1215, a group of twenty-five barons gathered in a field in southern england."
Baron means "noble man" and this title is given to someone who has nobility.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron
I was also interesting in learning where exactly Runnymede is. Here is a map. And on this map it shows the Magna Carta memorial.
Runnymede Map
After the reading, I was wondering a little bit about what the Magna Carta actually said... it was stated that it limited the power of the king, but there weren't any specifics, so I looked it up and found a translation of the Magna Carta. I'll just share a little of what it said:
1. It says that if a nobleman dies and his wife does not wish to remarry, she does not have to, which is pretty good in terms of women's rights. However, it does say that if she wants to remarry, it has to be with "royal consent", which I assume means she has to get permission. Not so great in the women's rights department.
2. If anyone owning land is convicted of a felony, then "we" (I'm assuming it means the king) will hold the lands for a year, and if the felon hasn't been cleared or reclaimed his land, then it will be given back to the lord of the felon.
3. It says that men won't be made "justices, constables, sheriffs, or bailiffs" (basically people who work with the law) unless they abide by the laws themselves and know them well. That's pretty good, and shows that they have standards for appointed officials.
There are a lot of other decrees as well, but some of them I couldn't understand or didn't think were that relevant.
Also, I have a few thoughts... first of all, I'm really surprised that there are YMCAs in China, and second, I'm even more surprised that they would be selling condoms AT the YMCA in China. I suppose AIDS is a really big problem, but still, it seems odd to me...
In answer to Preston, th king's armies would have been supplied to him by the barons, so if the majority of his barons turn against him, thats the majority of his troops going against him too (unless they rebel against the barons). In answer to Alex, the serfs were under the rule of the barons, so apart from wars or taxes the king's decisions would not affect them much. About the Magna Carta, did the king try to negotiate, or did he just sign it?
I found this article very interesting. I had a question from the 5 paragraph's we were suppose to read.- Who's idea was it to write/make the magna carta?
I also found this link: it is the magna carta
http://www.constitution.org/eng/magnacar.htm
When i was reading the wiki article, it said something about habeas corpus. I didn't know what that was so i followed the link and here's what it said
it is the name of a legal action, or writ, through which a person can seek relief from unlawful detention of himself or another person.
I also have a question...what did it mean when it says "it was forced onto an English King?"
The Wikipedia article mentioned people being free or 'fettered'. I found that fettered means
to impose restraints on; to confine.
Why were there so many versions of the Magna Carta? Did they completely change and delete parts of it each time, or was it the same document with the changes listed at the end?
I was wondering who was writing this? They kept saying 'I' but I wasn’t sure if this was an actual person, or a character in a book. I know it doesn’t really have anything to do with the Magna Carta, but I was just wondering about it.
Andrew: It really depends about the barons/soldiers. Barons kept their own private armies and the king had his own soldiers to protect him. Barons didn't necessarily supply troops to the king unless he called for an army to go and kill some French or Arabs (depends on the time period) As to your personal question, John didn't really have much choice as to whether he accepted the document or not. If he tried to negotiate, the barons would refuse to let him change it, and if he refused to sign it, the barons would kill him. At the time of the signing, the barons held all the power. That also answers your question, Eric, yes, the king wasn't a coward, but he was a realist and when the barons were threatening to kill him, he did sign it out of fear. That is sort of what Erin touched on, though I would say that he would of omitted great portions of it, had he been given the chance. He didn't really sign it to help him maintain power, because the document basically made him a figurehead, and there was no way that he wanted that, as he thought that kings should be allowed to do whatever they liked.
As for Laura's question, it was the idea of the Magna Carta started in the mind of Robert FitzWalter and carried on to include most of the barons in England.
As for Jessica's question, it was forced onto the king by having the barons tell him that they would kill both him and his family if he didn't sign the document.
As for my own questions:
1)Did the document mark a landmark, for future change in Europe.
2)Also, why didn't John enlist the help of the pope in Rome because they were REALLY good friends at this point?
I'm going to bring a book in tomorrow, and I'll discuss sources then.
I thought it was cool how many laws Magna Carta influence but was it influenced by something?
I think it was influenced by the Vikings government the Althing. I think this because the Vikings had a lot of contact with the British. Also the Althing has some rules that makes it so the king isn't all powerful.
I would like to know if anything else Influenced the Magna Carta.
I was also interested in learning more about the 25 barons who gathered around the King and forced him to sign the document. But, I wanted to find out exactly who the barons were, and if these particular individuals were of any real significance. Although in the reading it says that these men were held some power people, I'm not sure how significant they actually were.
Here is a link that names all of the barons with their crest:
25 Barons
Also, this is a little poem by Marriott Edgar commemorating the signing of the Magna Carta:
I'll tell of the Magna Charter
As were signed at the Barons' command
On Runningmead Island in t'middle of t'Thames
By King John, as were known as 'Lack Land'.
The site also has a bit of good details:
Website with poems and details
After I read the wikipedia article I was wondering what the King did to make it so that the Magna Carta was forced upon him and made him limit his power. I found at this site that people were revolting against the King because of his foreign policies which led to disaster.
Here is a picture of the Magna Carta.
If I understood the reading correctly Magna Carta is a treaty that the king signed in a moment of weakness. The king signed it even though he knew that once he did he would have less power and control over his people. It didn't really help his people except that it lessened his power,and gave more to them. Did it really make that much of a difference?
And was Chang'an a person or a city, that confused me!
i wanted to know if any parts of the magna carta was still in effect today..
it turns out it is,
"For modern times, the most enduring legacy of Magna Carta is considered the right of habeas corpus. This right arises from what are now known as clauses 36, 38, 39, and 40 of the 1215 Magna Carta.
As the most recent version, it is the 1297 Charter which remains in legal force in England and Wales. Using the clauses in the 1297 charter (the content and numbering are somewhat different from the 1215 Charter): Clause 1 guarantees the freedom of the English Church. Although this originally meant freedom from the King, later in history it was used for different purposes (see below). Clause 9 guarantees the “ancient liberties” of the City of London. Clause 29 guarantees a right to due process."
* I. FIRST, We have granted to God, and by this our present Charter have confirmed, for Us and our Heirs for ever, that the Church of England shall be free, and shall have all her whole Rights and Liberties inviolable. We have granted also, and given to all the Freemen of our Realm, for Us and our Heirs for ever, these Liberties under-written, to have and to hold to them and their Heirs, of Us and our Heirs for ever.
* IX. THE City of London shall have all the old Liberties and Customs which it hath been used to have. Moreover We will and grant, that all other Cities, Boroughs, Towns, and the Barons of the Five Ports, and all other Ports, shall have all their Liberties and free Customs.
* XXIX. NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the Land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right.[1]
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/citizenship/images/citizen_subject/magna_big.jpg
I couldn't get it to be a live link but it is to a picture of the Magna Carta and its pretty cool.
I noticed that the Magna Carta is one of the most important legal documents in the history of democracy, which is pretty interesting to me, because of all the documents that have been written which give rights and such. Im surprised that this one is considered most important.
sorry for the late post, i forgot we had to, and i just annotated the reading.
"
I had a few questoins, but the question that was the most important to me was... What did the pope do during the black plague?
Clement VI reigned during the Black Death. This pandemic swept through Europe (as well as Asia and the Middle East) between 1347–1350, and is believed to have killed between a third and two thirds of Europe's population. During the plague, he sought the insight of astronomers for explanation. Jehan de Murs was among the team "of three who drew up a treatise explaining the plague of 1348 by the conjunction of Saturn, Jupiter, and Mars in 1341" (Tomasello, 15). Clement VI's physicians advised him that surrounding himself with torches would block the plague. However, he soon became skeptical of this recommendation and stayed in Avignon supervising sick care, burials, and the pastoral care of the dying (Duffy, 167). He never contracted the disease. One of his physicians, Gui de Chauliac, later wrote the Chirurgia magna."
It was also a surprise to me that he consulted astronomers for help..
I did not think that Christians back then really liked astronomers etc?
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