Please post comments, questions, etc. here by 9 p.m. Wed night
17 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I found this story to be a bit odd, in that problems always seemed to resolve themselves without much effort from anyone. In particular, the whole bit when Enkidu and Gilgamesh are fighting, then Enkidu loses, and suddenly they're best friends. True, a goddess did advise Gilgamesh to embrace 'a man of great force and strength' when he appeared, but it still seems a bit unlikely. I found the story of the flood interesting in that, as Mr. Goldberg said, most cultures seem to have some variation of the same story. For example, the well-known story of Noah and the Ark. There also seem to be recurring stories about quests for immortality in various cultures. Not to mention, they never seem to find immortality, always winding up with nothing except maybe a little new knowledge. Hmm...
******EVERYBODY PUT YOUR thinking caps on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!************
I agree with Erin because of the fact that the story's problems were resolved so quickly. That may be due to some of the tablets being missing, but other than that, it seemed like the writer, at time could not think of what to do next, so they just picked something. Just like Erin said, Endkindu and Gilgamesh are fihgting and they just decide to be friends.Also, Gilgamesh fails and goes to sleep, yet Unapishtim just decides to give Gilgamesh the path to immortality anyways.
Also, I get the sense that women were not valued as much as they are in our society today. In fact, I got the sense that women were much lower than men in the story of Gilgamesh. The main charachters, Enkindu and Gilgamesh are men. Gilgamesh is 2/3 god and he is a famous ruler, who, throughout the story, becomes more famous and liked. Enkindu is the "strongest" and the "wildest" and is Gilgamesh's honorable companion. They defeat Humbaba, the Cedar Forest Demon, they build a cedar bridge to Uruk, and Gilgamesh is the one who finds immortality. Gilgamesh is the one who "Saw all and will declare all the world". Almost every time a woman is mentioned, the word sex is mentioned also. All of the women in the story are portray as prostitutes. There is also Ishtar,who is sexually interested in Gilgamesh after he defeats Humbaba. Then, when Gilgamesh rejects Ishtar, saying he does not want to be another one of her lovers that she kills, Ishtar gets angry and gets permission to release the "BULL OF HEAVEN" on Gilgamesh and the entire earth, leaving holes in the earth where the humans would fall in and die. When Gilgamesh defeats the Bull of heaven, Ishtar is enraged. If most of the women in the story are either prostitutes, or crazy women who send demons to kill you, I do not get the idea women in the time of the Mesopotamians were valued. At least not from the point of view of the author of Gilgamesh.
I also have a question...
why did ancient societies worship gods like Ishtar if those gods were so bad? Why did they pray to gods like Zeus (Greek god, I know) who cheated on their wives?
I thought that the story was interesting, in that it had quite a few references to the bible. It also referenced that Utnapishtim was Noah and that he was the one who built the ark. I think that Erin is right, that this story is the origin of the Noah and the Ark story seeing as this story was carved many years before the advent of Christ.
When reading this story I found it interesting that the story Noah and the Ark probably originated from this story. Utnapishtim was the one survivor of the great flood just like Noah and the circumstances of the 2 stories were the exact same. I think that the main reason the story seemed to move a little fast was because some of the tablets were missing. I think overall it was a very interesting story and follows almost the same patterns of stories from other cultures.
To answer Lauren's question I think that it made the snakes shed because the plant would make it so you would never become old. So snakes would shed their old skin of in order regrow their new skin. Therefor they would never age.
I also found these stories were odd. When different parts of the tablet are missing i wonder if the part of the tablet is very important. I personally did not like how the problems were resolved so quicky, and the way woman are treated. I agree with Emma, on why did people worship the gods if they used woman the way that they did. ALso in the example where Edinki is sent to hell, they dont make hell seem like such a terrible place. I dont understand why these people and stories were so goldy and worshiped by people when now a days these would not be looked well upon.
My first impression of the story of Gilgamesh was that it was written to inspire people who read it; to teach them to be generous and grateful, not selfish and greedy. Although in the textbook it says that this story might have been true, I highly doubt it. The way the story unfolds makes it seem like it was all made up beforehand and intended to give a lesson. However, it is possible that the story is based on a true event, but very much altered to the way the writer wanted. For example I thought it a very strange “coincidence” that Gilgamesh had a dream about an object coming to Earth, Gilgamesh embracing it, and then fighting with it. His mother tells him that this “object” will be a man, and sure enough, Enkidu arrives in the exact order of Gilgamesh’s dream and his mother’s prediction. However, such predictions are meaningless, because the predictor can say whatever they want, which gives them a lot of power, since the king listens to them and regards their prediction highly. Overall though, I was confused about why Gilgamesh is regarded as a hero. In my opinion, he seems like a selfish, arrogant, greedy man. All he cares about is himself and making sure that he is immortal.
Emma, to answer your question (kind of)-I'm not sure that all gods have to be good to be worshiped. I think that the different gods represent different characteristics of life. I think that many gods, when they get angry, take revenge on people, and I'm not sure you can judge a god based on that, because a lot of them do it.
I didn't think this story was a bit odd, I think it was extremely odd! Espically for the fact that Gilgamesh and Enkidu fight, then become great friends? I feel like Gilgamesh always has to have something going on, because one minute he'll be lazing around and then he decides to go on adventure.
Ok i thought this story was really weird. First off I didn't really understand how Gilgamesh was 2/3 god and 1/3 human. I agree with alex, i think that the problems were solved too quickly b/c one minute they were fighting then the next thing you know they are best friends.
I found this story to be a lot more interesting than I originally thought it would be. I agree with others who previously stated that the story read very flatly; it was basically a sequence of random events in chronological order. However, I found that the parts of the story that related to other stories or myths were very interesting. For example, I found that the story of Utnapishtim (the story similar to Noah's Ark) was very interesting because it was so similar. Also, the story about the snake that ate the plant of youth was very interesting; it seems to me that when ancient cultures couldn't come up with an explanation for something, they made up a myth like that to explain it easily. Is this how all myths started?
I personally agree with Alex once again. I found the story a bit different from our normal stories. I do agree with Alex's thoughts about the tablet that "wonder if it is an important part of the story" I think it is also weird how after Enkidu and Gilgamesh fight they're best friends. Its just different I suppose
I thought this story was very weird (but that may have been because there were parts missing). I also thought that it was cool how you can see connections between things happening in this story and some of the old religius stories i was taught when i went to sunday school. How things resolved so quickly made me laugh because they happened so quickly and randomly about things that were just silly themselves.
I agree with Harry and Erin, that this story has many references from the bible. It has a lot to do with fighting temptations. I also agree with Jessica that, it was extremely odd, and the feud between Gilgamesh and Enkidu does not make sense. It is strange that they fought, became best friends, and when Enkidu died Gilgamesh was extremely depressed.
I agree with Dylan that although the story was not incredibly dynamic, remember that it was a summary, not the actual story. The actual story on the tablets was probably a lot more exciting than the short summaries. Also, I agree with Dylan in that I think that all myths develop in order to explain something that is difficult for humans to understand.I also think that myths could be made up in order to teach people a lesson. However, my question is, who comes up with these myths? Perhaps it is not one person in particular, but many people over generations.
Here is some information about the end of the world in case anyone is interested...i know we were talking about that in class
this is from...
http://www.greatdreams.com/end-world.htm
The Mayan calendar is divided into Seven Ages of Man. The fourth epoch ended in August 1987. The Mayan calendar comes to an end on Sunday, December 23, 2012. Only a few people will survive the catastrophe that ensues. In the fifth age, humanity will realize its spiritual destiny. In the sixth age, we will realize God within ourselves, and in the seventh age we will become so spiritual that we will be telepathic.
___________________________________ unfortunately, I did not find ANYTHING that had to do with the mayans predicting the fall of the World Trade Centers...but maybe someone will get lucky and find evidence (yeah right)
17 comments:
I found this story to be a bit odd, in that problems always seemed to resolve themselves without much effort from anyone. In particular, the whole bit when Enkidu and Gilgamesh are fighting, then Enkidu loses, and suddenly they're best friends. True, a goddess did advise Gilgamesh to embrace 'a man of great force and strength' when he appeared, but it still seems a bit unlikely. I found the story of the flood interesting in that, as Mr. Goldberg said, most cultures seem to have some variation of the same story. For example, the well-known story of Noah and the Ark. There also seem to be recurring stories about quests for immortality in various cultures. Not to mention, they never seem to find immortality, always winding up with nothing except maybe a little new knowledge. Hmm...
******EVERYBODY
PUT
YOUR
thinking caps on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!************
I agree with Erin because of the fact that the story's problems were resolved so quickly. That may be due to some of the tablets being missing, but other than that, it seemed like the writer, at time could not think of what to do next, so they just picked something. Just like Erin said, Endkindu and Gilgamesh are fihgting and they just decide to be friends.Also, Gilgamesh fails and goes to sleep, yet Unapishtim just decides to give Gilgamesh the path to immortality anyways.
Also, I get the sense that women were not valued as much as they are in our society today. In fact, I got the sense that women were much lower than men in the story of Gilgamesh. The main charachters, Enkindu and Gilgamesh are men. Gilgamesh is 2/3 god and he is a famous ruler, who, throughout the story, becomes more famous and liked. Enkindu is the "strongest" and the "wildest" and is Gilgamesh's honorable companion. They defeat Humbaba, the Cedar Forest Demon, they build a cedar bridge to Uruk, and Gilgamesh is the one who finds immortality. Gilgamesh is the one who "Saw all and will declare all the world". Almost every time a woman is mentioned, the word sex is mentioned also. All of the women in the story are portray as prostitutes. There is also Ishtar,who is sexually interested in Gilgamesh after he defeats Humbaba. Then, when Gilgamesh rejects Ishtar, saying he does not want to be another one of her lovers that she kills, Ishtar gets angry and gets permission to release the "BULL OF HEAVEN" on Gilgamesh and the entire earth, leaving holes in the earth where the humans would fall in and die. When Gilgamesh defeats the Bull of heaven, Ishtar is enraged. If most of the women in the story are either prostitutes, or crazy women who send demons to kill you, I do not get the idea women in the time of the Mesopotamians were valued. At least not from the point of view of the author of Gilgamesh.
I also have a question...
why did ancient societies worship gods like Ishtar if those gods were so bad? Why did they pray to gods like Zeus (Greek god, I know) who cheated on their wives?
THATS ALL FROM ME FOR TONIGHT!
:-)
I thought that the story was interesting, in that it had quite a few references to the bible. It also referenced that Utnapishtim was Noah and that he was the one who built the ark. I think that Erin is right, that this story is the origin of the Noah and the Ark story seeing as this story was carved many years before the advent of Christ.
I had a question about the ending. When the snake ate the leaves, why did that make them shed?
When reading this story I found it interesting that the story Noah and the Ark probably originated from this story. Utnapishtim was the one survivor of the great flood just like Noah and the circumstances of the 2 stories were the exact same. I think that the main reason the story seemed to move a little fast was because some of the tablets were missing. I think overall it was a very interesting story and follows almost the same patterns of stories from other cultures.
To answer Lauren's question I think that it made the snakes shed because the plant would make it so you would never become old. So snakes would shed their old skin of in order regrow their new skin. Therefor they would never age.
I also found these stories were odd. When different parts of the tablet are missing i wonder if the part of the tablet is very important. I personally did not like how the problems were resolved so quicky, and the way woman are treated. I agree with Emma, on why did people worship the gods if they used woman the way that they did. ALso in the example where Edinki is sent to hell, they dont make hell seem like such a terrible place. I dont understand why these people and stories were so goldy and worshiped by people when now a days these would not be looked well upon.
My first impression of the story of Gilgamesh was that it was written to inspire people who read it; to teach them to be generous and grateful, not selfish and greedy. Although in the textbook it says that this story might have been true, I highly doubt it. The way the story unfolds makes it seem like it was all made up beforehand and intended to give a lesson. However, it is possible that the story is based on a true event, but very much altered to the way the writer wanted. For example I thought it a very strange “coincidence” that Gilgamesh had a dream about an object coming to Earth, Gilgamesh embracing it, and then fighting with it. His mother tells him that this “object” will be a man, and sure enough, Enkidu arrives in the exact order of Gilgamesh’s dream and his mother’s prediction. However, such predictions are meaningless, because the predictor can say whatever they want, which gives them a lot of power, since the king listens to them and regards their prediction highly. Overall though, I was confused about why Gilgamesh is regarded as a hero. In my opinion, he seems like a selfish, arrogant, greedy man. All he cares about is himself and making sure that he is immortal.
Emma, to answer your question (kind of)-I'm not sure that all gods have to be good to be worshiped. I think that the different gods represent different characteristics of life. I think that many gods, when they get angry, take revenge on people, and I'm not sure you can judge a god based on that, because a lot of them do it.
I didn't think this story was a bit odd, I think it was extremely odd! Espically for the fact that Gilgamesh and Enkidu fight, then become great friends? I feel like Gilgamesh always has to have something going on, because one minute he'll be lazing around and then he decides to go on adventure.
Ok i thought this story was really weird. First off I didn't really understand how Gilgamesh was 2/3 god and 1/3 human. I agree with alex, i think that the problems were solved too quickly b/c one minute they were fighting then the next thing you know they are best friends.
I found this story to be a lot more interesting than I originally thought it would be. I agree with others who previously stated that the story read very flatly; it was basically a sequence of random events in chronological order. However, I found that the parts of the story that related to other stories or myths were very interesting. For example, I found that the story of Utnapishtim (the story similar to Noah's Ark) was very interesting because it was so similar. Also, the story about the snake that ate the plant of youth was very interesting; it seems to me that when ancient cultures couldn't come up with an explanation for something, they made up a myth like that to explain it easily. Is this how all myths started?
I personally agree with Alex once again. I found the story a bit different from our normal stories. I do agree with Alex's thoughts about the tablet that "wonder if it is an important part of the story" I think it is also weird how after Enkidu and Gilgamesh fight they're best friends. Its just different I suppose
I thought this story was very weird (but that may have been because there were parts missing). I also thought that it was cool how you can see connections between things happening in this story and some of the old religius stories i was taught when i went to sunday school. How things resolved so quickly made me laugh because they happened so quickly and randomly about things that were just silly themselves.
I agree with Harry and Erin, that this story has many references from the bible. It has a lot to do with fighting temptations. I also agree with Jessica that, it was extremely odd, and the feud between Gilgamesh and Enkidu does not make sense. It is strange that they fought, became best friends, and when Enkidu died Gilgamesh was extremely depressed.
I agree with Dylan that although the story was not incredibly dynamic, remember that it was a summary, not the actual story. The actual story on the tablets was probably a lot more exciting than the short summaries. Also, I agree with Dylan in that I think that all myths develop in order to explain something that is difficult for humans to understand.I also think that myths could be made up in order to teach people a lesson. However, my question is, who comes up with these myths? Perhaps it is not one person in particular, but many people over generations.
Here is some information about the end of the world in case anyone is interested...i know we were talking about that in class
this is from...
http://www.greatdreams.com/end-world.htm
The Mayan calendar is divided into Seven Ages of Man. The fourth epoch ended in August 1987. The Mayan calendar comes to an end on Sunday, December 23, 2012. Only a few people will survive the catastrophe that ensues. In the fifth age, humanity will realize its spiritual destiny. In the sixth age, we will realize God within ourselves, and in the seventh age we will become so spiritual that we will be telepathic.
___________________________________
unfortunately, I did not find ANYTHING that had to do with the mayans predicting the fall of the World Trade Centers...but maybe someone will get lucky and find evidence (yeah right)
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